I would think that the hallmark of a good marriage is that both people are substantially better off together than if they weren’t together. It isn’t difficult to imagine a marriage where the spouses make each other equally miserable. That would I guess be a “fair” marriage, but no one envies that couple.
Isn't it overall fair though? If there were indeed an impartial omniscient judge who could tally up both the tangibles and intangibles in a good marriage, would they not pronounce the scales more or less balanced? We don't care about balancing individual scales but it does seem that the overarching scale should be balanced.
Define fair in a relationship, though, especially a romantic one. Fair, especially in a modern democratic context, usually means equitable (equitable here meaning roughly equal, not just looping back to the alternate definition of 'fair'). But how do you decide if non-fungible experiences and feelings are equivalent? Often there is a dynamic in relationships that men are the lovers and women are the beloved, especially early on. These are not equivalent experiences at all! How do we know that there are other parts of a relationship that make up for this inequity? Do we even need to make up for it in the case that a man and woman both enjoy their respective roles? What if one does but the other doesn't?
Lots to chew on here. Especially “one of us will die first.” Of course, no one knows exactly who will die first. Is the relationship not a success if the one partner hasn’t done extra to make up for the other partners lonely years without them?
This also leads me to the thought that not only do people want their relationships to feel fair, but they want them to feel fair at every moment. There’s little patience for your partner having a hard day, never mind a hard year. In my mind, it’s more exhausting to keep hold on the thoughts that I’ve done more than simply accept that from my perspective that may always be true, as it likely is from his.
This is very important. I've only been married for 8 years, but we've already had periods longer than 1 year that were "unfair" to me (I worked through COVID while my wife was traveling) and others that were unfair to her (babies). Now that we've been through both, it's easier to be chill and think of fairness on a multi-decade scale, not day-to-day.
This was an interesting read, although I think that conceptualizing “fairness” as a binary makes it feel easier to exclude, when (in my opinion) it is something to be considered.
I agree that it’s an unrealistic standard to achieve perfect fairness in any kind of relationship. However, in a society in which the “firm” of marriage is already one riddled with deep inequality (esp as it relates to domestic labor and responsibilities), asking women not to advocate for fairness feels like a way to justify this inequality, rather than promote change that would be beneficial to the entire family system.
Yes, “keeping score” is a losing game for everyone involved. At the same time, suggesting women forget about “fairness” while they’re shouldering an amount of responsibility—including “breadwinning” responsibilities—that is simply unsustainable if one wants to remain sane (maybe even happy if we’re getting crazy and dreaming big) just doesn’t sit right with me…
The author mentions “ask for what you need.” That would cover asking for help with an unsustainable “burden” (although I think anyone who characterizes caregiving or bread winning as a burden has already lost in the game of building a family). That help may come from outside the marriage by the way! One person can be overwhelmed and the relationship is still not the fault.
I would think that the hallmark of a good marriage is that both people are substantially better off together than if they weren’t together. It isn’t difficult to imagine a marriage where the spouses make each other equally miserable. That would I guess be a “fair” marriage, but no one envies that couple.
Isn't it overall fair though? If there were indeed an impartial omniscient judge who could tally up both the tangibles and intangibles in a good marriage, would they not pronounce the scales more or less balanced? We don't care about balancing individual scales but it does seem that the overarching scale should be balanced.
I honestly don't know what an “impartial omniscient judge” would pronounce about my marriage. Thankfully, I don't care.
Define fair in a relationship, though, especially a romantic one. Fair, especially in a modern democratic context, usually means equitable (equitable here meaning roughly equal, not just looping back to the alternate definition of 'fair'). But how do you decide if non-fungible experiences and feelings are equivalent? Often there is a dynamic in relationships that men are the lovers and women are the beloved, especially early on. These are not equivalent experiences at all! How do we know that there are other parts of a relationship that make up for this inequity? Do we even need to make up for it in the case that a man and woman both enjoy their respective roles? What if one does but the other doesn't?
this is incredibly good. one of those things that I strongly feel more people need to know about and ideally also understand.
Lots to chew on here. Especially “one of us will die first.” Of course, no one knows exactly who will die first. Is the relationship not a success if the one partner hasn’t done extra to make up for the other partners lonely years without them?
This also leads me to the thought that not only do people want their relationships to feel fair, but they want them to feel fair at every moment. There’s little patience for your partner having a hard day, never mind a hard year. In my mind, it’s more exhausting to keep hold on the thoughts that I’ve done more than simply accept that from my perspective that may always be true, as it likely is from his.
> they want them to feel fair at every moment
This is very important. I've only been married for 8 years, but we've already had periods longer than 1 year that were "unfair" to me (I worked through COVID while my wife was traveling) and others that were unfair to her (babies). Now that we've been through both, it's easier to be chill and think of fairness on a multi-decade scale, not day-to-day.
This was an interesting read, although I think that conceptualizing “fairness” as a binary makes it feel easier to exclude, when (in my opinion) it is something to be considered.
I agree that it’s an unrealistic standard to achieve perfect fairness in any kind of relationship. However, in a society in which the “firm” of marriage is already one riddled with deep inequality (esp as it relates to domestic labor and responsibilities), asking women not to advocate for fairness feels like a way to justify this inequality, rather than promote change that would be beneficial to the entire family system.
Yes, “keeping score” is a losing game for everyone involved. At the same time, suggesting women forget about “fairness” while they’re shouldering an amount of responsibility—including “breadwinning” responsibilities—that is simply unsustainable if one wants to remain sane (maybe even happy if we’re getting crazy and dreaming big) just doesn’t sit right with me…
The author mentions “ask for what you need.” That would cover asking for help with an unsustainable “burden” (although I think anyone who characterizes caregiving or bread winning as a burden has already lost in the game of building a family). That help may come from outside the marriage by the way! One person can be overwhelmed and the relationship is still not the fault.
Fully agreed, but asking for it creates an expectation that you know what you want and be straightforward.
We know it’s not happening.
Surely the lesson from those articles is to stop getting married, lest you end up chained to a woman like that