I realized while dating how far I could get on “hotness” points alone but luckily I was raised with my head screwed on straight and therefore have mostly figured out how to navigate this liability. I realized after a few false starts that while I could date almost anyone I was attracted to, it mattered a lot what deeper qualities of mine they appreciated and how much our internal values and mental models were compatible. Dating within values aligned communities has helped! Interesting article, thanks for writing!
Hard to disagree with anything here but, presupposing a hot girl wants to have a stable, happy marriage specifically, isn't the gigabrain 4D chess move if you're hot -and- smart to just flip the game board and look for the lowest status male that has your preferred good-husband characteristics? Like yeah it's high skill floor if you want to navigate all these status intricacies but don't you also just have the option of not playing the game? (The sanity check on this is the apparent ubiquitousness of the schlubby guy/hot wife trope.)
Like there's a theoretical rich guy inverse of this where you'd just come to terms with being okay not making all your golf buddies super jealous. You maybe also get the benefit of your partner in each case being less likely to be trying to do better by default? (The sanity check on this is your Mark Zuckerbergs where they clearly chose a partner who could keep up with them.)
I mean my "preferred characteristics" correlate with status, & it's almost definitionally the case that most people will be in my position. You get status when other people like and respect you. "Why don't you just be attracted to people that no one else is attracted to" like ok you can see how this isn't a scalable solution lol.
(Also, the standard girl forum response to this is that lower status guys will actually treat you worse.)
I don’t think this works. If someone offered me a job paying a million per year, I’d be likely to take it even if I quit in frustration two years later
The ideal partner for the hot girl is someone somewhat indifferent to her hotness. Which is why she needs a primary talent that she can build the relationship on, with the hotness being a perk
Hot girls flip the game board all the time. I don’t know any who bothered marrying in their 20s—like the author said, hot and single is a lot to give up—but most hot girls I know in their 30s said fuck it I just want to be happy, then married someone compatible who had lower status
Easier said than done. assortative mating rules. And most women prefer attractive, financially successful guys and vise versa. now when it comes to women who are equally desirable & actually have a chance at pulling them you’re expecting them not to ??
Again, if assume your actual, terminal goal is marriage/family (important! else yeah this idea definitely falls apart), the game theory here presumes a woman will notice that the men on the higher echelons are less likely to be seeking her out for the same goal versus purely for the status of having a hotgirl (and on their side, the ones who might won't be able to trust attractive women that strongly signal family aren't faking it which is why their equivalent move might also lean towards more creative strategies that eschews the obvious).
I think I read from you once that you do not like Female Dating Strategy. May I ask what was your problem with it? Some of it was excessive I suppose, but one thing I liked about them is precisely that it diverged from the usual 'just lose weight/be hotter/if you are not, then too bad for you' generic advice women usually get.
I’m all for surprising cases for sympathy; high status people have special burdens. But the not-hot would be just as good at carrying the hot girl’s burden. The only way your average person would be bad at navigating it is if they randomly woke up hot one day. It’s kind of like how CEOs are disproportionately tall men. It’s absurd and envy-inducing, until you realize tall men spend their lives being treated like the guy in charge. Life trains us. Hot girls become incredibly discerning, and as they age you can count on them being the shrewdest person in the room.
It doesn't seem to agree with your claim that more attractive women have less relationship satisfaction. The only result they found was that more attractive *men* report lower satisfaction. It also found more attractive wives behave more constructively and that when wives are hotter than their husbands, both spouses tend to behave more positively. This suggests that there are positive returns to hotness for women, though potentially not for men.
So you basically agree with me (that hot girls often don't want to be wifed up, and if they do they face selection and skill challenges) but you just wanted to write out your agreement in the most rude and insulting way possible? I'd be happy to hear about your own dating history, I promise to report whether I gasped or not.
I realized while dating how far I could get on “hotness” points alone but luckily I was raised with my head screwed on straight and therefore have mostly figured out how to navigate this liability. I realized after a few false starts that while I could date almost anyone I was attracted to, it mattered a lot what deeper qualities of mine they appreciated and how much our internal values and mental models were compatible. Dating within values aligned communities has helped! Interesting article, thanks for writing!
very interesting & unintuitive article!
as someone who recently became “hot”, your “hotness is capital” concept helped me understand why hot girls are often mean.
when everyone wants to take your time & attention to get a slice of your capital, you need to be less open to protect yourself
I appreciate the amount of synonyms you found for “hot girl” and the alliteration going on in them
Hard to disagree with anything here but, presupposing a hot girl wants to have a stable, happy marriage specifically, isn't the gigabrain 4D chess move if you're hot -and- smart to just flip the game board and look for the lowest status male that has your preferred good-husband characteristics? Like yeah it's high skill floor if you want to navigate all these status intricacies but don't you also just have the option of not playing the game? (The sanity check on this is the apparent ubiquitousness of the schlubby guy/hot wife trope.)
Like there's a theoretical rich guy inverse of this where you'd just come to terms with being okay not making all your golf buddies super jealous. You maybe also get the benefit of your partner in each case being less likely to be trying to do better by default? (The sanity check on this is your Mark Zuckerbergs where they clearly chose a partner who could keep up with them.)
I mean my "preferred characteristics" correlate with status, & it's almost definitionally the case that most people will be in my position. You get status when other people like and respect you. "Why don't you just be attracted to people that no one else is attracted to" like ok you can see how this isn't a scalable solution lol.
(Also, the standard girl forum response to this is that lower status guys will actually treat you worse.)
Ah fair enough, definitely a few things I had not considered.
If only female desire was as obedient to calculated reason as 4D chess pieces.
Look alls I'm saying is that if I was every woman I'd have all of this figured out by now obviously.
I don’t think this works. If someone offered me a job paying a million per year, I’d be likely to take it even if I quit in frustration two years later
The ideal partner for the hot girl is someone somewhat indifferent to her hotness. Which is why she needs a primary talent that she can build the relationship on, with the hotness being a perk
Hot girls flip the game board all the time. I don’t know any who bothered marrying in their 20s—like the author said, hot and single is a lot to give up—but most hot girls I know in their 30s said fuck it I just want to be happy, then married someone compatible who had lower status
Easier said than done. assortative mating rules. And most women prefer attractive, financially successful guys and vise versa. now when it comes to women who are equally desirable & actually have a chance at pulling them you’re expecting them not to ??
Again, if assume your actual, terminal goal is marriage/family (important! else yeah this idea definitely falls apart), the game theory here presumes a woman will notice that the men on the higher echelons are less likely to be seeking her out for the same goal versus purely for the status of having a hotgirl (and on their side, the ones who might won't be able to trust attractive women that strongly signal family aren't faking it which is why their equivalent move might also lean towards more creative strategies that eschews the obvious).
“I’m not writing this post as spiritual guidance for perfect 10s who happened to stumble onto this blog”
are you sure bc I felt so seen
In that case hey are you free tonight let's get a drink and discuss hot girl troubles in depth.
might just stay at home and Bask In My Own Warm Glow
I think I read from you once that you do not like Female Dating Strategy. May I ask what was your problem with it? Some of it was excessive I suppose, but one thing I liked about them is precisely that it diverged from the usual 'just lose weight/be hotter/if you are not, then too bad for you' generic advice women usually get.
I’m all for surprising cases for sympathy; high status people have special burdens. But the not-hot would be just as good at carrying the hot girl’s burden. The only way your average person would be bad at navigating it is if they randomly woke up hot one day. It’s kind of like how CEOs are disproportionately tall men. It’s absurd and envy-inducing, until you realize tall men spend their lives being treated like the guy in charge. Life trains us. Hot girls become incredibly discerning, and as they age you can count on them being the shrewdest person in the room.
> being hot provides an advantage in all stages of a relationship — attraction, negotiation, and maintenance — with no diminishing returns.
I think you mean 'negative returns' here, no?
This makes sense.
Being hot is like winning the lottery. Lottery winners often don’t do well. It’s a special case of superpowers crippling people.
I enjoyed reading this and lol’d at the tweet about hot people remarking “wow everyone is so nice” -Fran
I read the first study you linked - here's the full paper: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lisa-Neff-3/publication/5584694_Beyond_Initial_Attraction_Physical_Attractiveness_in_Newlywed_Marriage/links/55b6b3c908ae092e9656f0eb/Beyond-Initial-Attraction-Physical-Attractiveness-in-Newlywed-Marriage.pdf
It doesn't seem to agree with your claim that more attractive women have less relationship satisfaction. The only result they found was that more attractive *men* report lower satisfaction. It also found more attractive wives behave more constructively and that when wives are hotter than their husbands, both spouses tend to behave more positively. This suggests that there are positive returns to hotness for women, though potentially not for men.
“I get immediate social feedback on the quality of experience of being in my company because that’s the only thing people are in my company for.”
In the context of this essay, may I call this out as a glorious example of snark towards oneself? Well played!
So you basically agree with me (that hot girls often don't want to be wifed up, and if they do they face selection and skill challenges) but you just wanted to write out your agreement in the most rude and insulting way possible? I'd be happy to hear about your own dating history, I promise to report whether I gasped or not.